Endgame Neumann KH 120 MKII (Endgame)

HiFiASMR

HiFiASMR

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The Neumann KH 120 MKII are truly endgame. They are flawlessly flat and transparent with no tonality defects. Like most studio monitors, their woofer is not strong enough to reproduce sub bass without a subwoofer. This is why open back dynamic driver headphones are just as good if tuned properly. They don't need the sub bass to sound like amazing studio monitors.
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third party measurements agree. Super neutral and smooth response for a flawless studio monitor sound:
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I also own the Neumann KH120 II monitors, and they are indeed quite impressive. The center image is remarkably well-defined, with considerable leeway on the horizontal plane, though the vertical plane offers much less flexibility, which is expected given that they are not coaxial. I prefer using them with a subwoofer, specifically a single Kali WS-6.2 subwoofer. This sub features an active crossover set at 80Hz and delivers ample output, though achieving a smooth, even response can be somewhat challenging. Depending on your room's acoustics, you may still need to apply some EQ to fine-tune the bass.

I primarily use this setup for studio work and don't anticipate adding a second subwoofer. However, I do plan to invest in a MiniDSP with Dirac Live at some point to better calibrate the subwoofer with the KH120 IIs for an even more refined listening experience.
 
The Kali subwoofer's drivers are only six-and-a-half inches each, and there are two of them. However, they start to "plop" at 25Hz and below, which is understandable given the inherent physical limitations. At a certain point, it's simply a matter of physics. Even the Kii Three BXT, which also features multiple six-and-a-half-inch drivers, reportedly begins to "plop" around 20Hz, according to feedback from other users. This isn’t a significant issue for me, though, as I use these for music production, mixing, and mastering, where I typically high-pass around 30 to 40Hz anyway.
 
Not considering bass, are these that much better than the KH80's to warrant the price difference? According to these measurements, the KH120's do look more flat, but is there a real-world difference?
 

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propa123 said:
Not considering bass, are these that much better than the KH80's to warrant the price difference? According to these measurements, the KH120's do look more flat, but is there a real-world difference?
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Main difference even sean olive has stated is that it's easy to make a small cheap speaker measure flat but you need bigger speakers to fill a room with sound.
 
HiFiASMR said:
Main difference even sean olive has stated is that it's easy to make a small cheap speaker measure flat but you need bigger speakers to fill a room with sound.
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If using them purely near-field at a single listening position, do you need to fill the room with sound?
 
I think I'm going to sell my KH120's and just save up for the Genelec 8361's
 
****** said:
if using near field, kh80 is fine, but both require a subwoofer
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Im a sperg so I just need some clarification, do you mean 'fine' as in it will be good enough (but KH120-ii's are better), or 'fine' as in if I was to pair them with a subwoofer, there would be no audible difference between KH80's and KH120-ii's? Because according to graphs the 120's look smoother in the midrange and treble, but I have no clue how audible that is in real-world performance.
 
propa123 said:
Im a sperg so I just need some clarification, do you mean 'fine' as in it will be good enough (but KH120-ii's are better), or 'fine' as in if I was to pair them with a subwoofer, there would be no audible difference between KH80's and KH120-ii's? Because according to graphs the 120's look smoother in the midrange and treble, but I have no clue how audible that is in real-world performance.
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I have the Neumann KH 120's and they're meh. Just save up for the Kii Three's or the Dutch & Dutch 8C's
 
Sebastian B said:
I have the Neumann KH 120's and they're meh. Just save up for the Kii Three's or the Dutch & Dutch 8C's
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I am looking for the flattest FR, and the Neumann's measure flatter, but thank you for the recommendation. If you are located in the UK, I'd be happy to buy your Neumann's if they are for sale :)
 
Sebastian B said:
I have the Neumann KH 120's and they're meh. Just save up for the Kii Three's or the Dutch & Dutch 8C's
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describe what is meh about kh120 and why kii or dutch is better. this is vague as shit.
 
propa123 said:
I am looking for the flattest FR, and the Neumann's measure flatter, but thank you for the recommendation. If you are located in the UK, I'd be happy to buy your Neumann's if they are for sale :)
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I'm in the US.
 
HiFiASMR said:
describe what is meh about kh120 and why kii or dutch is better. this is vague as shit.
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Lol I'm just not impressed with them. Go buy a pair and you'll see what I mean. There is other technology involved in the Three's and the 8C's, and of course they have perfectly integrated bass woofers. There's a video on YouTube of a guy comparing the Genelec 8361's to the 8C's and remarked that he could he hear reverb tails much better on the 8C's and that there was more clarity in the midrange, which can't possibly be related to the FR as both the 8361's and the 8C's have nearly identical FR. Erin from EAC said something similar about the KEF Blades he reviewed. The FR is just as linear as these other speakers, but he was experiencing significantly more instrument separation. He said it might be related to the low distortion, but the 8C's actually have rather high distortion (or at least higher than what you would expect for that price). So I think there is probably something about the driver technology that is increasing detail/instrument separation. FR isn't everything, and ****** has said something similar about his Audeze LCD-5's. Focusing only on FR is just a coping mechanism for those whose who can't come up with alternative explanations to what constitutes high fidelity sound. It's sort of an autistic fixation that doesn't actually tell the whole story.
 
Sebastian B said:
Lol I'm just not impressed with them. Go buy a pair and you'll see what I mean. There is other technology involved in the Three's and the 8C's, and of course they have perfectly integrated bass woofers. There's a video on YouTube of a guy comparing the Genelec 8361's to the 8C's and remarked that he could he hear reverb tails much better on the 8C's and that there was more clarity in the midrange, which can't possibly be related to the FR as both the 8361's and the 8C's have nearly identical FR. Erin from EAC said something similar about the KEF Blades he reviewed. The FR is just as linear as these other speakers, but he was experiencing significantly more instrument separation. He said it might be related to the low distortion, but the 8C's actually have rather high distortion (or at least higher than what you would expect for that price). So I think there is probably something about the driver technology that is increasing detail/instrument separation. FR isn't everything, and ****** has said something similar about his Audeze LCD-5's. Focusing only on FR is just a coping mechanism for those whose who can't come up with alternative explanations to what constitutes high fidelity sound. It's sort of an autistic fixation that doesn't actually tell the whole story.
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Post fr measurements of both.
 
Transient response and resolution (such as the ability to hear the end of reverb tails more clearly) are both functions of speaker driver mechanics that are independent of frequency response. The fact that you guys are still requesting frequency response graphs just proves my point: you guys are autistically fixated on FR because you're unable to provide an alternate explanation for why a speaker might sound different.
 
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Sebastian B said:
Transient response and resolution (such as the ability to hear the end of reverb tails more clearly) are both functions of speaker driver mechanics that are independent of frequency response. The fact that you guys are still requesting frequency response graphs just proves my point: you guys are autistically fixated on FR because you're unable to provide an alternate explanation for why a speaker might sound different.
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You just search for explanations for your subjective perceptions but are not able to provide any evidence for errors that are not solvable with proper dsp. Just another mastering gossiper. Like little children trying to speak a different language - bababababa.
 
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